Different ways to use either COLORS or VALUES

[Celeste McCall]

After learning from Skip Lawrence and Christopher Schenk's videos I bought sometime wayback......I learned some very important lessons which I'd like to share concerning Using COLORS or VALUES....the why, how, etc.


Not everyone is going to agree with this thread because we all see differently.

It's what I see as taught by the above artists though. All art theory is just that....a theory. So not trying to convince anyone. Just suggesting that this is something to think about when painting.


First, I'm going to concentrate on my favorite which is 'value painting'. Their strengths/weakness as I see them. My most favorite artists are all tonal painters...which means that they don't paint with a lot of bright colors. In fact, most paint with grayer colors like Andrew Wyeth, Whistler, and Rembrandt.

In the next few weeks we will hopefully be exploring this through examples and finally through an original tonal painting.


Look under my name and you'll see I just earned 20 coupon points for starting a new thread. (Had to try it out to see how it works).

This way......they always show. Can you see it? If not.....I'll have to click another button for it to show.

[Tami Durbin]

Dear Celeste,

Yes, I can see that you have earned 20 coupon points under your avatar pic.

Tami

[Celeste McCall]

Ok, so to begin this lesson....we need to learn that we either do MOSTLY ONE......or MOSTLY the OTHER.....either COLORS (bright)......or contrast of VALUES with less clean clear colors.



So, FIRST, let's explore why Skip says to paint with MOSTLY bright clear hues... See Here:




Notice that he is only talking about using MOSTLY PURE Colors in this video.

[Celeste McCall]

Notice that he says "White is the enemy of pure colors." Because it steals the 'light' and takes over. So he will eventually get rid of that 'white' in the foreground on this painting.

[Tami Durbin]

Dear Celeste,

Thank you very much for sharing the video clip with us!
I think what Skip is trying to say is that white mixed
with other colors lowers the saturation of the colors.
Is this what he is saying? Maybe is is saying more than
this? Maybe I am wrong?

Thanks,
Tami

[Celeste McCall]

Actually he mixed white with his yellow color in those tree trunks that he painted.

He is actually talking about the white of the paper....and also WHITE paint itself. Don't use with (maybe tiny bit) bright colors.

Here is another tip showing that both white and black (in larger areas) will kill the power of bright colors.
Look at examples #2 where he mentions that strong darks and lights will diminish the power of either HUE paintings....or INTENSITY paintings. Strong darks and lights are usually effective MOST in VALUE contrast paintings. See Here:

www.thepalettemagazine.com/learn/tips/pdf/Tip_2004_00006.pdf


I think that this is the most difficult of all things to understand in art. That if someone is always saying you need bright lights and dark darks in every painting....then they are not fully aware of the other 2 ways to create effective paintings like shown on that tip sheet.

Some don't like bright color contrasts nor intensity contrasts.....they only paint in high value-contrasts all the time no matter if they use bright colors or not.

I really do like all 3 types of contrasts. And I do understand them. Because Arnold Lowrey taught us that light vs dark is only ONE way to paint. Then showed us intensity contrast.....and hue contrast. He would begin a painting with "How do I feel about this painting"......THEN he would chose one of the 3 ways to paint it. GENIUS!

[Celeste McCall]

Go to 5.23 with the slider on the video for his warning about white of the paper where he will 'get rid of it'. Maybe that will clarify more a little also. But sure wish I could find a better example. I'll look some more online tonight.

I consider Skip to be one of the best out there in art knowledge. Likely another modern day Whitney in his ability to teach art theory by making it easy to understand. Amazing painter even though many here might not like his work as much as I do. I love the feeling in his work. High energy and intuitive color.

[Tami Durbin]

Dear Celeste,

OK, i went back and do understand what Skip was saying about
white making other colors duller. There was white in the
foreground and that explained it. Thank you very much.

Tami

[Pam Millspaw]

I find that I am more attracted to the contrast of colors when I go into a gallery. Those paintings catch my eye and stand out even if I don't like the subject matter that much. For instance, I like the contrast of colors in your Red grapes CST original, Roses on top of a ruined painting, Another ruined painting fix Roses to Grapes and Cherryl’s tomatoes.

However, when I paint, I enjoy the pastels, the pretty softness of the design. I don't use the bright colors. I realize that your paintings were watercolor and maybe that is the difference.

I, like Tami, was trying to understand his comment about white stealing the contrast. With my china painting it seems that there is always lots of white until I did the grape bowl with Orr colors. I have had more compliments on that piece than any other that I have painted. And I ended up liking it very much. Still there were not the clear colors as shown in the video, but there was the absence of white.

I want to do more of that style painting. Thank you for the video that helped explain contrast of colors vs contrast of values. Would the grape bowl fall into the contrast of values then?

Pam

[Celeste McCall]

Cherryl and I learned that same thing from Arnold Lowrey workshop. And also it is in his books and videos. So, I guess that's why I heard it that way from Skip.

Arnold told us to not paint 'pure white' (nor let paper show)in 'Intensity' contrast contrast paintings. Many artists warn against bright white and black being used in paintings. Thank you for asking questions, folks. As this is how we learn from each other. I love hearing your opinions also. Great job....Tami and Pam.

[Celeste McCall]

Here is more on 'not' using white and black in colorful paintings:

ianstormtaylor.com/design-tip-never-use-black/


However, Simon Bull uses both white and black and high chroma colors in some of his paintings. However, they are not realistic style. But GREAT to look at.


The point, I guess, is.....to figure out WHAT you want to convey to your viewer....then paint in the style and the colors.... OR contrast of values....OR color Intensities..... which you think will best suit the idea that you want your viewer to get from the painting. This will create unity in your paintings and a much more clear message to your viewer OR a judge in an art contest.

However, some judges only know of one contrast....which is value contrasts....and that's all they look for....and they are prejudiced to only high value contrasts. They have trained their eyes away from the other two options as being worthy of their awards. So, be sure to check out the work of the judge first. If he doesn't appreciate color as much as value contrasts....then only paint in value contrasts mostly.

[Celeste McCall]

Also, Pam, I agree about color, but all of my paintings mentioned are mostly grayed tones. Very little bright color in them. and very little 'white' in them at all. It's actually a pale yellow...not white. Or pale blue in those paintings.
I paint more tonal. But I do use color chaining to get color interest in them. But in real life they are quite domesticated and calm as opposed to bright colors.

However, a couple are also 'intensity'.....bright color against mostly duller colors. I really like the mood that this type of composition makes.

If ever one finds their work with 'dull colors'....the POP IN a Bright intense color....and it will really zizzzzz it up!



Also, to answer your question....YES....your grape painting is for sure tonal. No bright intense reds, greens, blues, yellows, etc. These colors you used are tones (darker values) of reds like violet of iron, browns, etc.

The reason you get most compliments on that piece is that it is:
Unified
Tonal


Most people relate to tonal paintings. Paula Collins does not paint in bright intense colors. She paint in clean clear subdued colors and most people relate to those very easily.

Some only like bright colors though....and I mean 'soap box' colors with lots of black and white. I think that we become prejudiced about what we like by studying artists that we like. Then become influenced by those.

[Tami Durbin]

Dear Celeste,

Thank you very much for the link about using black.
I am going to start using tinted blacks in my paintings
thanks to you

Tami

[Celeste McCall]

When I paint with watercolor, and Tami has already done this....so this is for others......

RED-black is used in the foreground
BLUE or GREEN-black is used in the background areas of a painting.

This adds to the depth of the black. (Can even be used WITHIN an object.....like black hair.)

[Celeste McCall]

Also, check out this video.

1. AN OBJECT CAN HAVE COLOR and not have FORM/depth/volume
2. FORM requires VALUE changes.

[Celeste McCall]

Here are some good TONAL paintings. (Some are really good)

[Pam Millspaw]

Celeste,

Thank you for the links. I loved the Lone Hunter painting in the tonal group. But I guess I am more of a color person. The muted shades and sometimes monochromatic paintings don't catch my eye like some others. I noticed that sometimes he would put just one small, brightly colored thing in the painting..

I never thought about finding out what judges want and then painting to that preference, but I could see where that would work. The same thing happens in horse shows. Not many judges like Arabians, so if you aren't in a strictly Arab show, you won't do so well. I see that happen at the fairs every year. (I don't show, I just watch) I have only entered one competition and they put my porcelain in with sculptures! I wanted to compete against paintings and I was beat out by cheese graters decorated like knights in armor! LOL.

I love your color chaining and read about it when I first started on this forum. I need to go back and read again. I am a much better painter thanks to this site and I have really learned a lot over the years. The other thing that makes it different than having a single painting teacher, is that we get to see so many styles and preferences. This allows us to see a post and say "I really love this one, what is it that they are doing that attracted me to it?"

Thanks again for teaching.

Pam

[Celeste McCall]

Thank you Pam. You are a sweetie pie.

We all learn from each other because of our different styles and our different opinions. That's one reason why we want to hear other's opinions. We learn how others see things.

Often, we see things or 'think' things which we have been taught. Sometimes we are resistant to new or different information. This is when we begin to stagnate as artists.

The best thing to help spur creativity is to look at all art in categories on web. Example: type in 'rose art paintings' in a Google or Bing image search....and look at all the paintings. They are so varied and different.

[Tami Durbin]

Dear Celeste,

Those videos are both excellent!!!
The tonal artist paint super well!!!
I love the look of spruce trees in
the background on a misty morning.

Thank you for sharing these videos
with us.



Taami

[Celeste McCall]

Paula White paints with COLOR and LIGHT. She explores colors within objects....such as a clump of grapes is never just 'purple'. Here is some info on her and showing some of her work.

[Tami Durbin]

Dear Celeste,

I enjoyed that video.
Thank you for sharing it!!!

Tami

[Celeste McCall]

"Hi Celeste
I am a bit late coming into this
You and others seem to have covered most things. However, I think the thing to aim for is why you wanted to paint it. Look for the emotion - sad happy, wistful, sunny, colourful etc and try ang go for that. In landscapes someone said people dont put enough yellow (Van Gogh did) They cant wait to put into the blues which are dark tonal values Hold back on the values as much as you can and then when your ready - pop!
Arnold Lowrey"


The above is quoted from another art forum. Arnold is 100% right. The more I learn....the more I realize that what he says is 'right' for me also. Emotion is the thing that first needs figuring out before using either VALUES or COLORS or INTENSITIES as the plan for the paiting.

[Celeste McCall]

The above is one of the most important statements EVER.....that I have learned in fact.

I tried for years to put in the "little bit of" first. But they are ones that POP a painting. So paint a whole lot of ______________________________.....and then pop in a little bit of different COLOR....OR VALUE......OR INTENSITY.

That's the secret perhaps.

[Celeste McCall]

This is also a great book on exactly what we are talking about in this thread.

www.cheapjoes.com/watermedia-focus-workbook.html

[Celeste McCall]

kathytate.com/

Look at the work of this great Stephenville, TX artist....Kathy Tate. Wow!
These are TONAL or INTENSITY paintings. Any painting that has FORM.....shows depth and makes objects seem 'realistic' are TONAL paintings.

And any painting that is mostly browns/grays with pop of bright clear color....and with only maybe TINY white or black in them....are INTENSITY paintings.

These are not HUE paintings....which would have bright clean clear colors.

I love these two different contrasts style of Kathy's. She has perfected her art for sure in my book!

[Celeste McCall]

sandrasallin.com/gallery/

Sandra paints in TONAL paintings also.

How to recognize TONAL paintings

1. They likely have both white(ish) and black(ish) in their paintings. Remember that tonal paintings use VALUE contrasts.
2. They don't have bright colors with only 'near' values .....there are some muted colors in their paintings also.
3. They look 3-d or have depth of field. They look almost REAL.
4. When grayscaled, one can see the bright lights and deep darks in a TONAL painting. (In HUE paintings the values within the painting mostly appear the same gray all over. maybe only minute lights/darks....but the object in a HUE painting is to have same values....but different temps of colors)

[Celeste McCall]

What kind of CONTRAST is this artist, Don Berger, using in his paintings?

www3.telus.net/DonBerger/gallery.html

[Pam Millspaw]

Wow, I love both Sandra's and Don's paintings. I say he is using tonal contrasts. He has a lot of white and sometimes black to set off a center. In his glads and peonys I could see a lot of grayed whites, oranges, lavenders etc.

[Celeste McCall]

Yep. You are correct Pam. Good on figuring that out.

[Celeste McCall]

This is my favorite online instructor and artist,John Lovett, explaining tonal contrasts:
www.johnlovett.com/tonal.htm